Title : INFOCOM REUNION CONFERENCE Transcript (Text) Keywords: INFOCOM REUNION CONFERENCE CON TRANSCRIPT TEXT An edited transcript of the GAMERS Forum's INFOCOM REUNION CONFERENCE on February 18th, 1992. Guests included Marc Blank, Dave Lebling, Stu Galley, Amy Briggs, Bob Bates, Steve Meretzky, Brian Moriarty and Mike Berlyn. Hosted by Ms. Wiz/Associate SysOp. Transcript was edited for clarity. Not to be distributed without permission. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Good evening, everyone! Welcome to the long-awaited INFOCOM AUTHORS REUNION! We're all excited that so many of them were able to make it and we owe our thanks to the bringing together of these master story- tellers to the efforts of Bob Bates (take a bow, Bob!). (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Not as awesome as the 5th anniversary party ... (2-10,Bob Bates) (2-35,Nightie/SYSOP) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) I want to thank all of you who posted questions for the first part of the conference. The final question tally was 23! But in order to give everyone a fair chance to talk with the authors, I've whittled the list down to 15 questions of general interest. My advance apologies to those of you who submitted multiple questions if I didn't get all of them in. And now, on with the show! I'll introduce each of the authors who will, in turn, tell us what they're doing these days, then I'll upload the questions (to save time). If time doesn't permit for the full 15 questions to be submitted, we'll open the real-time questioning at approximately 10:00 p.m.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Dave Lebling, GA. (2-7,Dave Lebling) I'm currently doing that most boring of things, writing a spreadsheet program! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Stu Galley, GA. (2-19,Stu Galley) I'm now working at Thinking Machines Corporation (maker of the world's fastest computers), designing and implementing the Macintosh infrastructure for the sales force, world-wide. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Thanks, Stu! Bob Bates, GA. (2-10,Bob Bates) Proud father of a 21 month old boy, and still laboring in the game field for Legend Entertainment. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Amy Briggs, GA. (2-18,Amy Briggs) I'm a PhD. candidate in Experimental Psych. at the U. of Minnesota. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Steve Meretzky, GA. (2-15,Meretzky) I'm still writing games... Currently working on my third game for Legend... Spellcasting 301, probably due out around Labor Day... A sequel to Leather Goddesses that I wrote is due out next month. GA. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Brian Moriarty, GA. (2-36,Professor Moriarty) I'm a Senior Designer/Project Manager for Lucasfilm Games, a division of LucasArts Entertainment, a subsidiary of Lucasfilm Ltd. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Mike Berlyn, GA. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) I'm currently at Accolade, purveyers of games of all sorts, working my little neurons off on a Sega Genesis cartridge. GA. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) And, last but not least, Marc Blank, GA. (2-31,Marc Blank) Mainly, I take care of the animals on our property (horses, cows, pigs.) For fun, I own a ComputerLand store in Bend GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Did Dave Anderson arrive?) (2-10,Bob Bates) I just checked the forum, & he's not there (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Guess his new job kept him from making it . Thanks, Bob.... (2-4,herc/Ass't SysOp) I don't see him, unless he's using an assumed name. (2-10,Bob Bates) By the way, Wizzy, if I may jump in here for a second... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, here come the questions. GA, Bob. (2-10,Bob Bates) I spoke with Jeff O'Neill on Saturday... He sends his regards to his former colleagues and regrets that he couldn't come tonight. He said he would call Hollywood after it was all over and find out what happened. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Thanks, Bob. That was nice of Jeff! Okay, _now_ come the questions!..... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To Steve Meretzky: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Whatever happened to HHGTTG II that was forecast in the crystal ball in Beyond Zork? GA. (2-15,Meretzky) Douglas was going to work on it after he finished Bureaucracy... But that project dragged on so long And did pretty poorly at the box office That neither he nor us felt too excited about doing it. Actually, Stu started working on Restaurant, but that wasn't long before "the end." GA. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Next question.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To Brian Moriarty: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Trinity was one of the most haunting adventure games I've ever played because of the truly brilliant job of weaving truth and fantasy into the story. I'd like to know what inspired you to write that story. Looking back to the game, what particular thoughts and memories would you care to share with us? GA. (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Hmm. (2-36,Professor Moriarty) I actually had the idea of Trinity before I came to Infocom. It was my first proposal. Marc laughed at me. Then I did Wishbringer, and after that they let me do what I wanted. The fools! GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Next question.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To Dave Lebling: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) SPELLBREAKER was, in my opinion, one of the most difficult adventures ever published by Infocom. When you set out to design this game, did you intentionally try to make a difficult game? And if so, was the decision based on the fact that this was the last game in the ENCHANTER trilogy? GA. (2-7,Dave Lebling) The game was deliberately made difficult. It was a "present to our most fanatic fans," and I've paid for it ever since. I still get phone calls from people who are stuck on the thing! GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) I can well imagine! Next question.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To All: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) In every Infocom game I've ever played (23, I think), there seemed to be a great joy of creation at work. Was this the prevailing atmosphere at Infocom? Is the spirit of creativity still a major driving force in the industry, or have things become more like they are in other businesses? GA. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Just indicate you want to comment with a "!" (2-31,Marc Blank) ! (2-10,All) ! (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-36,Professor Moriarty) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Marc! (2-31,Marc Blank) I think we all tried to make the environment conducive to creativity and fun... (2-28,Mike Berlyn) ! (2-31,Marc Blank) The "profit motive" seemed to take second place to the games themseves. Of course, in the long run, this can cause problems. (GA) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Bob...shoot! (2-10,Bob Bates) I thought Infocom was the most creative place of business I've ever seen. I don't ever expect to see the likes of it again. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Dave. (2-31,Marc Blank) ! (2-7,Dave Lebling) I think it was easier to be fun and creative back then, when a game cost less to produce and the time invested overall was lower. Further (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Dave, I think your last line truncated.) (2-7,Dave Lebling) one person could keep an entire game in his/her head and "do it all." GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (ah...nevermind!) Okay, Brian, GA. (2-36,Professor Moriarty) High-end graphic adventures now require about 8-12 man-years and $500,000 + to create, not counting benefits and marketing. Things become considerably less experimental under these conditions. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Whew! That's a pocketful of cash!) Mike, GA. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Working at Infocom was a creative experience, indeed. The *most important* thing was the game. Consideration to costs was a factor, but not the overriding one. The industry has changed significantly since then and the major issue for most games, as BrAin stated, is their cost. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Marc, take it away! (2-31,Marc Blank) Dave makes a good point. There is a great deal of satisfaction in being able to "do it all" - from conception to implementation. To me, it seems that the work of writing games became more of a job, less of a joy. An interesting (and sad) note is that most ex- Infocom people say that the Infocom experience was the best in their lives, in terms of their creativity... (2-18,Amy Briggs) ! (2-31,Marc Blank) and the spirit of the place. I tend to fall into this myself at times. ga (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Thanks, Marc. One last comment from Amy, then we'll go on. GA, Amy. (2-18,Amy Briggs) I wanted to say that Infocom was a great place to work. And, sad to say, Marc is right -- it is as if the rest of the world doesn't appreciate creativity and fun! ga (2-20,Wizzy/Host) And it showed in quality game output....Okay, next question... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To Dave Lebling and Marc Blank: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) I am pretty familiar with the early genesis of the Great Underground Empire, since Don Woods and his wife Sheryl are good friends of mine. But I don't know much about the transition from the mainframe versions to the commercial Zork. Could Dave Lebling and Marc Blank talk some about who was responsible for what in the additions to the GUE world and the adventure itself, and whether there were any copyright problems starting from a base that already had so many incarnations? GA. (2-31,Marc Blank) ! (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Marc. (2-31,Marc Blank) Zork, although similar in concept to Adventure, but the game itself was entirely original (i.e. it wasn't built on top of, or in addition to, the earlier game by Woods and Crowther. The original copyright for Zork was owned by MIT, but Infocom was given rights to use the game. ga (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Dave. (2-7,Dave Lebling) I should also point out, since I've seen erroneous statements to the contrary, that Marc and I (and Tim Anderson and Bruce Daniels) were the authors of the MIT-copyrighted Zork, so we licensed a version... (2-31,Marc Blank) ! (2-7,Dave Lebling) that we were the authors of. We moved it to the commercial world when it became feasible. This was embarassingly soon after we had published an article saying it would never happen. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Marc. (2-31,Marc Blank) Also, the "Great Underground Empire" was entirely a new creation of ours though, in truth, I can't remember who coined it. Dave? ga (2-7,Dave Lebling) I'm not sure. I think it appeared on the coin? "722 G.U.E" ? ga (2-20,Wizzy/Host) That ring a bell, Marc? GA (2-7,Dave Lebling) "In Frobs We Trust" (2-31,Marc Blank) Yes. I have a feeling, actually, that Bruce Daniels invented GUE. He was certainly responsible for "Zorkmids". ga (2-7,Dave Lebling) I'd buy that (for a quarter). (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Whoever coined it, its origins still haunt us all! Next question..... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To Amy Briggs: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) I found Plundered Hearts an interesting adventure, but it seemed to be a bit on the short side. I also think it had a different feel to it, having to take on the part of a woman. Something that does not happen often (also tried that in LSL5). Were you the only woman writing Adventures for Infocom? If so, I wonder if you could say why you became interested and perhaps suggest why more woman don't get involved in adventures/computers? GA. (2-18,Amy Briggs) Boy, that's a biggie... (2-18,Amy Briggs) The game was short because I'm verbose ... (2-18,Amy Briggs) I don't know why more women don't play computer games... (2-18,Amy Briggs) Ahh -- Prof points out that the world's most popular game writer is a woman! (GA) (2-36,Professor Moriarty) _Adventure_ game writer. (2-12,Darkin) roberta williams? (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Indeed. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, next question..... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To All: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Is there a possibility that we might see more ex-Infocom staff appearing in the Legend Entertainment fold or forming their own company? GA. (2-18,Amy Briggs) ! (2-10,Bob Bates) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Amy. (2-15,Meretzky) I'd never do it. (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-18,Amy Briggs) I'd be interested -- in 6 years, after my dissertation! (2-18,Amy Briggs) ga (2-31,Marc Blank) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Go, Bob. (2-10,Bob Bates) I withdraw my ! I want to see what they all say first !! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (hahaha!) Okay, GA, Dave. (2-7,Dave Lebling) Yikes, I didn't want to go first. Well, Bob's company is doing the sort of games that I expect Infocom would be doing if it still existed. On the other hand they have an amazingly corporate looking headquarters! But seriously, "only time will tell." GA (2-28,Mike Berlyn) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Marc...GA. (2-36,Professor Moriarty) (Tell 'em about the coffee machines, Bob.) (2-31,Marc Blank) I'm glad that Bob is still working on this type of game. If I were interested in doing more game writing, I would certainly look there first. Actually, the kind of game I would be most interested in would be mainly audio-based. After all these years I'm still not all that graphically oriented. ga (2-15,Meretzky) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Nor am I...) Okay, go, Mike. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Interesting... (2-28,Mike Berlyn) I had a pretty frightening experience with the last adventure game I wrote, Altered Destiny or for you Infocommies, Altered Dusty Knees. and I think I've sworn off writing them for at least a century or two. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Steve. (2-4,herc/Ass't SysOp) (2-10,Bob Bates) ! (2-15,Meretzky) Ex-Infocommies can only go to work for Legend as long as Legend is thriving. So buy lots and lots of Legend games. Especially Spellcasting games. GA. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, one last comment from Bob, then we'll go on. GA, Bob. (2-10,Bob Bates) All I can say is that my dream has been to build a company that is as wonderful as Infocom was. Legend is a long way from that but when we get closer, I hope we'll be able to attract some of the same people who made Infocom what it was and offer them a secure living. When that day comes, you can bet I'll be on the phone. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Good speed, Bob! Okay, back to the questions.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To Anyone: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Is there any way of obtaining old copies of the New Zork Times or Status Line? GA. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) My phone number is... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Guess not, eh? (2-10,Bob Bates) remember (2-19,Stu Galley) Someone from Activision Studios would have to answer. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) I guess so...okay, we'll try another question.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To Anyone: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) There was a rumor that Quarterstaff was converted to the PC and is now sitting on a shelf in a darkened room. Is there any truth in that rumor? GA. (2-15,Meretzky) ! (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Steve. (2-15,Meretzky) I don't think so. It certainly never happened before Infocom "moved" to CA. GA. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Dave. (2-7,Dave Lebling) I can only second Steve's comment. No such thing. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Too bad...I'd have liked to try it. Okay, next question.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To anyone! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Is there anywhere a definitive map and description of the GUE? From playing all 5 Zorks and the Enchanter series it's clear that towards the end of Infocom () _someone_ had at least a mental picture of all the lands, towns etc. mentioned in the games. GA. (2-15,Meretzky) ! (2-36,Professor Moriarty) !] (2-31,Marc Blank) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Steve. (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-15,Meretzky) I made such a map when I was working on Sorcerer... (2-31,Marc Blank) un! (2-15,Meretzky) and made an even more detailed version when I was working on Zork Zero. But I don't think it ever saw the light of day. I also went through all the games in the Zork universe and made timelines and lists of all the Flatheads and stuff like that. But once again, they never made it into the public eye. GA. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) You also wrote the book(s) on the GUE (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Quite a feat...the GUE is huge! Okay, Brian, GA. (2-36,Professor Moriarty) When I started BEYOND ZORK, I used Steve's SORCERER maps as the basis. The map of the west continent, included in BZ, is fairly complete. But it doesn't show the main continent or islands. ZORK ZERO has some good material too. You could almost piece it together ... GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Dave, GA. (2-7,Dave Lebling) Steve was the mapmaker, being the only Imp with the patience to gather all the material. Some thought it to be sacrilegious to do so (leave the mystery mysterious) GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) I'd still like to see the entire world! Okay, next..... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To All: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Where did all the wonderful names in the Zorks come from? Was it a group effort, or did they spring mainly from one person's brain? GA. (2-31,Marc Blank) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Marc. (2-31,Marc Blank) I think they came from MSG overdose. ga (2-7,Dave Lebling) Most InfoBrains were as off-center as a random-orbit sander :) (2-28,Mike Berlyn) More Mai-Tais! (2-31,Marc Blank) They don't make 'em like Aku's anymore... (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Mai Tais. NOW I am getting homesick ... (2-28,Mike Berlyn) And you guys made me eat with chopsticks. (2-10,Bob Bates) They got frotzed by hanging out too long near the bedister. (2-15,Meretzky) You should see what they made ME do with chopsticks. (2-7,Dave Lebling) MSG overdose -- "House of Roy" was the unsung fifth author of the original Zork! (2-10,Bob Bates) And how 'bout some DOUGHNUTS? (2-36,Professor Moriarty) These Californians think it's uncool to drink. Scowl. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (I guess that answers THAT question!) (2-31,Marc Blank) Actually, Bruce Daniels is responsible for GUE, Dimwit Flathead, and many others... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, one last question before we open up the floor..... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) To Stu Galley: (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Which was the favorite of the games you authored? GA (2-19,Stu Galley) Gee, the favorite of mine or of the public? (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Your favorite. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (GA) (2-19,Stu Galley) It's a bit like asking which is your favorite child... (2-19,Stu Galley) You like each of them for different things... (2-19,Stu Galley) But I think the technique got better with each one... (2-19,Stu Galley) So, I guess Moonmist is the winner, at least for now! GA (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Ooooh! It's scary, kids! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Great first half, team players! And now...the floor is open to questions...... (2-10,Bob Bates) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) If you'd like to ask a question, please type a "?" (2-41,Willmore the Rover) ? (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) ? (2-13,Urfang/Roe R. Adams) ? (2-22,Mindsword+FG) ? (2-33,Ted Markley [MPS]) ? (2-36,Professor Moriarty) <-- Mixes a Virtual Mai Tai. (2-22,Mindsword+FG) (2-30,Darkin) <--- Mixes a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, we'll start with Roe (since he's dialing in from Japan), then we'll go with the rest in order.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Roe! (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! -- pours a dram or two of Single-Malt Scotch. (2-30,Darkin) do the HHG sequel....PLEASE!!!!! (2-13,Urfang/Roe R. Adams) First, Johnny Wilson from CGW is over here this week and says Hi to everyone! (2-30,Darkin) ok--I'm done, continue.... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Waving at Johnny!) (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Ask Johnny about the whale! ;) (2-13,Urfang/Roe R. Adams) Second, we once say an InfoBrain- remember the "where the sun doesn't shine" ad? Third and last- Didn't I see a huge GUE Poster in your office years ago? GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Comments, InfoAuthors? (2-28,Mike Berlyn) (2-10,Bob Bates) does "say" = saw? (2-13,Urfang/Roe R. Adams) yup, a typo (2-13,Urfang/Roe R. Adams) GA (2-22,Mindsword+FG) Oh, great... Roe's on a say-saw (2-10,Bob Bates) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Bob. (2-10,Bob Bates) Yes, I remember the sun don't shine ad. And I do seem to remember seeing... (2-23,Meretzky) ! (2-10,Bob Bates) a big hand-drawn map of GUE hanging in the Imps' lounge. Whatever happened to it? . GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Steve. (2-23,Meretzky) Back in the really really early days of Infocom (1980, I think) Infocom commissioned a Zork I poster, which was done by Dave Ardito an artist friend of Stu's. It was essentially a cutaway view of the... (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-23,Meretzky) GUE geography in Zork I. The original was framed and hung in the central area of the implementor's suite. That might be what Roe saw. Stu, don't you have the original now? GA. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Dave, hit it. (2-19,Stu Galley) Yes, I have them sealed in a helium-filled vault. (2-10,Bob Bates) And Stu's address is... (2-36,Professor Moriarty) [Hope they don't float off. (2-7,Dave Lebling) There was also a Zork II map that was done by another artist. That too was... (2-30,Darkin) nobody strike a match... (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Helium is inert. (2-7,Dave Lebling) hung in the ImpLounge. There was no "map" in the Rand MacNally sense, though. GA (2-19,Stu Galley) !@#$%^&* (2-28,Mike Berlyn) ! (2-19,Stu Galley) (Sorry, I stubbed my toe.) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, one last comment from Mike, then we'll go on. GA, Mike. (2-10,Bob Bates) That must be one big computer you're using! (2-36,Professor Moriarty) How did you stub you toe while ... oh, never mind. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) I think I have that brain Roe asked about. In my garage. GA (2-30,Darkin) oops--yeah hydrogen/helium/you spell hindenberg... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, we'll continue with Willmore. GA, Willmore! (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) This is Willmore.... (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) Changing to real name Infocommies knew us by.... (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) First, I'd like to thank all of you for all the joy you gave us over many years, playing, and often beta testing. I still remember the half-hour giggle fit I had when I met the sailor in ZIII. (2-30,Darkin) hail all ye observant chemistry majors! (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) Question: did you know there actually is an English word "grue"? For some reason, the French translation is used more in English than the English. "Frisson" GA (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Dave. (2-7,Dave Lebling) "Grue" comes from on old word for "blood" (think "gruesome"). I stole it from Jack Vance, the sf/fantasy writer. (And Thank YOU!) GA (2-7,Dave Lebling) "Grue" in french means "crane" by the way. In Montreal phone books there is a big section "Location des Grues" ("Grue Rental") Beware! GA (2-36,Professor Moriarty) And you thought the folding crane in TRINITY was a liberal trick. (2-23,Meretzky) Didn't it mean something in German, too? (I remember from when Jeff was doing the translation, I think). GA (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Now _there's_ a game that never came out. German Zork. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Yes. As I recall, the word GRUE in German means lurker. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) All done, authors? Willmore? GA (2-23,Meretzky) Kinda redundant, then, to say lurking grue. ga (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) Well, I could add: where is Bend? And (private to Bob) have you (2-17,Roger Baird) ? (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, ToH, GA! (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) Glastonbury? GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (oops...hang on a sec, ToH) (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) ( >HELLO, IMPLEMENTOR )? (2-10,Bob Bates) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, ToH...take it away! (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) First, to Marc...do you think you'll ever finish the trilogy started with JOURNEY? Second, to both Marc and Dave...I have an Ancient (722 GUE) copy of Zork I That claims to have been published by Personal Software...what's the story behind that? GA (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Marc seems to have slipped out for a moment or two... (2-28,Mike Berlyn) oops GA (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) Hmmm, well, it can wait...ga (2-7,Dave Lebling) Personal Software published our games for us before we took them over. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) ToH, I'll put you back at the end of the queue, and when Marc returns.... (2-7,Dave Lebling) Actually, they only did Zork I, then decided to concentrate on VisiCalc... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) you can ask your question again. (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) OK...always wondered about that (the first game I ever bought...the hit that... (2-7,Dave Lebling) and other business products instead. GA (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) started the addiction B-) ) (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) ga (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (I got Z1 on an 8" CP/M diskette ) Okay, FG, GA. (2-22,Flying Gerbil) I was wondering who started the tradition of hiding "easter eggs" in all the Infocom adventures? It seems there were some even in Zork I. GA (2-36,Professor Moriarty) (Marc is returning.) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Looks like nobody wants to take the credit for this one, Gerb! ) (2-23,Meretzky) What's an easter egg? (2-22,Flying Gerbil) (2-10,Bob Bates) It's what the easter bunny brings. sheesh. (2-7,Dave Lebling) There were easter eggs even in Colossal Cave, so it was nothing new! GA (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) Filfre is an easter egg (2-23,Meretzky) An inside joke? (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Filfre is a Leblingism. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Sorta, Steve. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Mike. (2-7,Dave Lebling) It comes from "The Motto of the Implementors": "Feel free!" (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Well, I remember that the author's name... (2-23,Meretzky) ! (2-28,Mike Berlyn) while emblazoned on the box cover, was always well hidden within the game. Finding the names or name of the author was always a fun tradition that was well under way when Suspended was written. GA (2-35,MARC BLANK) My favorite game was Cornerstone. The best part was finding the credits. (2-19,Stu Galley) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Steve. (hahaha, Marc!) (2-36,Professor Moriarty) I thought the Roman Numeral I/O was cute myself. (2-23,Meretzky) Bob just (via SEN) defined an easter egg for me as... (2-28,Mike Berlyn) hahahahaha! Wasn't FRED responsible? (2-23,Meretzky) "a hidden reward for an obscure action". In that case I would say that Infocom games were one gigantic easter egg since all actions were unstated and left for the player to discover. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (And some were VERY obscure, too!) Okay, Stu, GA. (2-19,Stu Galley) Maybe the egg tradition started when Personal Software published Zork I, and we wanted to supply a mail-order address for the after-market in posters, maps, and hints. So we hid the advertisment in an obscure place for folks to discover. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) That do it, Gerbs? (2-22,Flying Gerbil) Second, who thought up "Hello, Sailor" and what does it mean, if anything? GA (2-22,Flying Gerbil) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (2-19,Stu Galley) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Stu. (2-19,Stu Galley) Okay, I'll guess: Tim Anderson put it in the ODYSSEUS poem... (2-19,Stu Galley) Odysseus was a sailor, after all! -fin- (2-35,MARC BLANK) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Marc. (2-35,MARC BLANK) Again, I believe that Bruce Daniels wrote the verse and "Hello Sailor" ga (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (It's always meant something different to me! ) GA, Dave. (2-7,Dave Lebling) Bruce wrote the original poem, which was a SINBAD poem, because he got his legends mixed up. As I recall, Tim helped on the rewrite when I pointed out that it was Odysseus who poked the Cyclops' eye out, etc. GA (2-22,Flying Gerbil) (guess we'll never find out what it means ) (2-35,MARC BLANK) Sounds right to me (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay...let's go on...Ted Markley...GA (2-33,Ted Markley [MPS]) I know MicroProse is about to release it's first Animanted ... (2-7,Dave Lebling) I was supposed to be clue that the poem was about a sailor, Gerb! GA (2-33,Ted Markley [MPS]) Graphic Adventure the fall and wondered if authors of text adventures find it difficult to make a traaansistion to animation or even CARE about that medium. GA (2-35,MARC BLANK) ! (2-36,Professor Moriarty) ! (2-23,Meretzky) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Marc. (2-35,MARC BLANK) I think that we pretty much all considered the story itself to be primary... (2-28,Mike Berlyn) ! (2-35,MARC BLANK) Everything else was considered fluff. As graphics improved, and the tradeoffs improved (i.e. memory was cheaper, people had hard drives), the graphics became more palatable for us. I bet, though, that in our heart of hearts, all of us prefered the text-based games. Although, someone should mention audio... ga (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Audio!) Okay, Brian, GA. (2-10,Bob Bates) ! (2-36,Professor Moriarty) Graphic adventure designers facve a terrible dilemma. (Er, face.) 1. You can't do anything you can't show. 2. You can't afford to show anything! I'd go back to text in a moment if I could make a living. GA (2-18,Amy Briggs) ! (2-36,Professor Moriarty) (Or audio.) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Steve, GA. (2-23,Meretzky) I've pretty much worked on the extremes with the pre-graphic Infocom games and recently with LGOP2, which is an entirely-graphic point and click game with some but not a lot of text. I would say that the difference is more minor than it's made out to be; at it's heart, it's still a game and has to be engaging and entertaining for all the same reasons. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Amen!) GA, Mike. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Indeed, making a game is what it's all about, and in the end, if the product is evaluated for gameplay, I think all designers who worked in an all-text environment could produce equally entertaining games. But people tend to demand more and better pictures, which eats up the space available for balancing game play and adding all the great features that made the text-based games so entertaining. Phew! Enough of the verbose mode. Back to brief. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Bob, GA. (2-10,Bob Bates) As Brian said, a problem with 'graphic adventures' is that everything you want to convey to the player, you have to draw. A team of artists is much more expensive than a writer. So what tends to happen in today's games is that what gets implemented is the "right" path through a game, rather than an environment to explore. This is a great loss, in my humble opinion, but it is a competitive advantage for Legend, one which we try to exploit. On the other hand, those "one path" games seem to be what's selling these days so we continue to try to "hit 'em where they ain't". GA (2-36,Professor Moriarty) (Or not selling, as they case may be.) (2-23,Meretzky) But we'd rather be right than rich. (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, we'll hear from Amy, then go on. Amy, GA. (2-10,Bob Bates) Let me write that down. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (then dave) (2-18,Amy Briggs) For you in the industry, what about the future. Virtual Reality -- which is primitive now, of course, but ... (2-2,KINJITE) ? (2-18,Amy Briggs) so were graphics originally. (Or Virtual Audio, Marc.) (2-18,Amy Briggs) GA (2-10,Bob Bates) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Dave...THEN we'll go on! GA, Dave. (2-36,Professor Moriarty) ! (2-7,Dave Lebling) I think text adventures and graphics adventures are similar but fundamentally different media, like TV and movies. Not everyone can write for both, and the same is true in our industry. I think the technical advances that Amy talked about will only make that more obvious. A giant, multi-CDROM, VR adventure game is going to be as little like the current stories as they are unlike the earliest text adventures. They will also be orders of magnitude more expensive to produce, and orders of magnitude more profitable when they are successful! We are getting into the movie business, gang. GA (2-27,Brian Moriarty) Sigh. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Short comment, Brian? Or can we continue? (2-27,Brian Moriarty) One of our people here commented at a recent VR conference ... (2-23,Meretzky) Let's do lunch. (2-27,Brian Moriarty) that VR was like putting a rented bowling shoe on your face. GA (2-10,Bob Bates) Have your people call my people (2-28,Mike Berlyn) I'll have my girl call your girl. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Good analogy, Brian! Okay, Roger, GA. (2-7,Dave Lebling) I'll have my voice-mail call your voice-mail. (2-17,Roger Baird) I really don't have question, just a comment... (2-10,Bob Bates) My voice mail won't be in that day. (2-17,Roger Baird) I'd just like to thank all of the Infocom writers for the fantastic games that they wrote. Thanks for the memories - those classics are still some of the best I've ever played! ga (2-4,herc/Ass't SysOp) (2-28,Mike Berlyn) For the most part, it was our pleasure. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Hear, hear!) (2-33,Ted Markley [MPS]) Her! Hear! (2-19,Stu Galley) Here's a news bulletin from Albertville, New Hampshire... (2-10,Bob Bates) Har! Har! (2-19,Stu Galley) George Bush has taken the gold medal in Economic Downslide! (2-12,MARC BLANK) [SIGH: Lost connection again. Now back!] (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Where? Where? (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, ToH, Marc's back in the room, so you want to run that JOURNEY question by him once more? (Stu...Grin!) (2-27,Brian Moriarty) But not by much. Not by much ... (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) Sure...Marc: Do you think you'll ever get a chance to finish the trilogy started in JOURNEY? (perhaps in Audio/text format B-) ) ga (2-12,MARC BLANK) No. The original didn't do well. I think the Journey concept was a good one. Are there other games like it which attempt to provide seamless interactive storytelling? ga (2-28,Mike Berlyn) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Mike. (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) The only thing I could compare to it in that sense would be... (2-33,Ted Markley [MPS]) Just think! With Audio output and voice recognition we could play Zork while commuting! (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) Star Saga: One...ga (2-28,Mike Berlyn) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Yes, now . (2-28,Mike Berlyn) I just want to say how disappointed I was on learning that Journey... (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) ! (2-28,Mike Berlyn) was not going to be continued. I, for one, felt the interface made the breakthroughs that Marc and I had talked about for a long time. Without the graphics forcing him in that direction it's unclear that that FORM could ever have been done as seamlessly. GA (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) " (ditto) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Dave? GA. (2-7,Dave Lebling) I'd like to see a Journey-style interface done with "modern" technology, such as the Windows interface. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Kinjite, the ever-patient GA. (2-2,KINJITE) "Listening" in on this conference has really brought back a wave.... (2-23,Meretzky) ...of nausea? (2-2,KINJITE) of nostalgia; I played Z1 on a 48k TRS-80, was a beta tester for Infocom I want to know if there are plans for a collaboration between the Implementors and other non-text oriented designers for a new game. It seems to me that we really lack an eclectic, intelligent basis for game design today.. it's all so cut-and-dried, so laid out for us that we... (2-12,MARC BLANK) ! (2-2,KINJITE) miss the fun of stumbling upon plotlines and ideas by ourselves, not by reading some setup in a manual.... ga (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Marc. (2-23,Meretzky) ! (2-12,MARC BLANK) I think the "market" causes a kind of "least common denominator" mentality... (2-28,Mike Berlyn) ! (2-12,MARC BLANK) that works against creativity and radical change. The same thing, of course happens in other creative media. I think that most of us implementers were somewhat naive about these things. ga (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Steve, GA. (2-23,Meretzky) I think the Legend-style of games also lends itself to that same discovery process. Another factor, though, is just the fact that the industry is older and more mature, and there's an ongoing problem of trying to please the hard-core, experienced adventure gamer, while also trying to be easy and simple enough to attract newcomers. GA (2-27,Brian Moriarty) ! (2-2,KINJITE) Are we in the middle of the MTV era for computer games? (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Mike, GA. (2-18,Amy Briggs) ! (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Things in the industry are *not* at all the same as when we were writing text adventures. With the maturity of the industry comes with it ***** M A R K E T E E R S ****** the plague of the creative type. Well, this isn't true, but it is a nice over-simplification of the problem. The more mature the industry, the more the focus is on selling the product to the MOST amount of people, which leaves out the "computer game players" as they're a "specialty" market. Selling adventure games (ask Bob! Go 'head) is a specialty niche market. With graphics, and the more graphics the better, you (2-10,Bob Bates) ! (2-28,Mike Berlyn) capture more of the market. And with more of the market, the product and plot lines get more and more lobotomized. You start asking yourslef, "But will it play in Peoria?" And then you see these (wait... I'm foaming at the mouth here, a great flame...) people telling you to make the story less complicated, and asking you BUT WHY IS IT A GRUE? Can't it be a dragon? And you just shrug and smile. GA (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (hahahaha) (Flame off, Mike? ) Okay, Brian, GA. (2-27,Brian Moriarty) Mike is right. Adventuire games are a specialty, HOBBYIST market. (2-12,MARC BLANK) ! (2-27,Brian Moriarty) A few years ago, several companies started to build adventures that were shorter and easier, hoping to capture some of that "mass market" we keep hoping is out there. We didn't find it. Now the trend is to retrench, make the games harder and longer, and win back some of the hardcores we disenfranchised with games like COLONEL'S BEQUEST and LOOM. GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Okay, Amy, GA. (2-18,Amy Briggs) Ummm -- I forgot. But didn't Tom Snyder talk about all fishing in the same small pond? GA (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Probably at some point, Amy! Okay, Bob, GA. (2-10,Bob Bates) As someone who both designs these things and tries to sell them I have an unusual perspective on the problem. I can tell you that the 'hard core' market has shrunk, and that no company can stay in business trying to market solely to them - they're just not enough of them out there. So what we have to do is design games that appeal both to the hard core crowd, to the reviewers (!), and to the 'shoulder' market as well - people who buy games on impulse. This means that the products MUST have a good High Concept. You have to do games that are appealing on the face of them to make browsers pick up the box and want to try them. Then you have to supply the traditional quality and gameplay within the box that keeps them coming back for more. Why people keep coming back for more with some of the games that are out there right now is beyond me but thank heavens people are at least willing to try. GA (2-19,Stu Galley) I'm sorry, but my three hours are up. G'night, folks. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) It used to be if it said "Infocom" on the cover, I bought it! GA, Marc. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Good night, sweet Stu! (2-27,Brian Moriarty) Night, Stu! (2-18,Amy Briggs) May flights of angels and all that. (2-12,MARC BLANK) ! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Marc. (2-12,MARC BLANK) I think that what's unfortunate is that the computer gaming medium is an interim one. In my mind, it won't (and can't) last. It will be replaced by interactive video/audio, etc.... The problem is that the industry has turned the video game arena into a "business", which has caused creativity to flag. It is exactly... (2-28,Mike Berlyn) !!!! (2-7,Dave Lebling) ! (2-12,MARC BLANK) this sort of creativity that will allow us to make the next step. I wish somehow that we had more time to move forward before we were forced to "sell out". ga (2-27,Brian Moriarty) (How many megs does YOUR zootrope have?) (2-20,Wizzy/Host) GA, Mike. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) I wish I had SOME time before I was forced to sell out and I, among others, was looking for the arrival of CD-I as a saving medium. But it is expensive to produce for and so, I fear the gaming business is not only going Hollywood, but literally, going TO Hollywood. Interactive multimedia is the future of the mass-market adventure game. But heir cost, and their very mass market nature, is going to wrest them from the designers' hands, and put them into the hands of script-writers (witness Les Manley 2, which was done with the aid of a script writer). GA (2-18,Amy Briggs) fahrenheit 451, here we come! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) One last comment from Dave, then we'll call the conference fini. GA, Dave. (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) (disconnecting my smoke alarm) (2-7,Dave Lebling) And this is going to be another flame, too. The problem is that everything we do is expensive, and expense means mass-market, because otherwise you don't recover your costs. If it costs a half million to do a game, and you recover maybe 5 to ten dollars per unit sold, you have to sell a lot of copies. How much is the next generation going to cost? Well, look at Terminator 2, which had the next generation of special effects;they are said to have spent 40million on the special effects alone. Can a Sierra or and Accolade afford that? No, of course not, which means big money and the mass market. The "boutique" companies can survive only if the tools to build games become as relatively cheap as movie cameras, film, and splicing machines are in that industry. I don't see it happening, because all the tools are trade secrets, and even those are abysmal compared to what the ILMs use to chew up $40million. In short, Mike is right, Marc is right. We have seen the future and it is Arnold. GA (2-1,Crusader) (2-23,Meretzky) That note was so depressing, let's end. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) And with that thought-provoking commentary, this conference is officially ended! Loosen your girdles! (2-28,Mike Berlyn) The truth hurts, eh? (2-12,MARC BLANK) We're all sounding like Marvin, the paranoid game writer. (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) Hasta la vista, did he say? (2-18,Amy Briggs) Ah, the good ol' days! (2-10,Bob Bates) Oh, I dunno... (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) (not marvin) (2-23,Meretzky) I'm so depressed, I'd even vote for Pat Buchanan. (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Ah the mediocre old days! (2-7,Dave Lebling) My lower 64K has been in severe pain for 40 million years. (2-27,Brian Moriarty) So would 40% of NH. (2-10,Bob Bates) I think there's still opportunities out there... (2-12,MARC BLANK) How did Buchanan do? (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) ---> Marc. WE liked Journey enough to BUY it after beta-testing TWICE (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) (2-10,Bob Bates) At least that's what we're chasing. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) As one of those "diehard text adventurers," I'm TIRED of having to upgrade my system every two years. (2-22,Flying Gerbil) Let the mid-life crises begin. (2-18,Amy Briggs) Well, they seem good if they're old! (2-28,Mike Berlyn) Night, all! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Night, Mike...glad you could make it! (2-10,Bob Bates) Good night, Mike. Thanks for coming! (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) G'nite Mike! (2-27,Brian Moriarty) See ya, Mike! (2-23,Meretzky) Good night, Mike! See you in April. (2-13,Urfang/Roe R. Adams) Great being with you all again! Take care, bye (2-7,Dave Lebling) Ta, Mike, good to "see" you! (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) --->BTW, the Legend interface resembles the Journey interface in some ways (2-18,Amy Briggs) Byeya (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Thanks for hanging in, Roe! (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) G'nite Roe! (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) 'Night, Infidel! (2-27,Brian Moriarty) Wave, Roe! (2-7,Dave Lebling) Bye, Ames! (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) --->Dave, foo on Windoze. OS/2 rules! (2-1,Crusader) Steve - I always wanted to know how much of HHG was you and how much was Adams? (2-23,Meretzky) Bye Amy! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) See you later, Amy! (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) --->Brian, as someone who beta-tested Spellbreaker, I want to say I didn't (2-7,Dave Lebling) Sorry, J/E, OS/2 is as dead as the dodo: the mass market rules. (2-27,Brian Moriarty) 95% was Steve. (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) Bye Amy! (2-22,Flying Gerbil) Bye, everybody! (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) --->Brian feel "disenfranchised" by Loom. I'd even buy a sequel (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) FG - (2-12,MARC BLANK) [Bye - My Powerbook is running out of batteries and I don't have my charger!] (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Steve, that seems a little, um, high? (2-1,Crusader) (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) Bye Marc! (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Night, Marc! Glad you made it...and made it, and made it . (2-10,Bob Bates) Marc, Your kingdom for a horse, eh? (2-22,Flying Gerbil) Marc, good for you! A Mac user! :) :) (2-7,Dave Lebling) What about the Dems, SEM? (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) Marc - Hope you don't have the 170! (2-23,Meretzky) Bye Marc! Look for your Oscar ballot in a week or so! (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) Bye, Marc...again...B-) (2-7,Dave Lebling) Bye, Marc! (2-10,Bob Bates) Hey! I didn't get any ballot!!! (2-12,MARC BLANK) Actually, I've got a 100 (whimper...) (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) Oh, ONLY a 100... (2-27,Brian Moriarty) I to must flee. Thanks, all! Nice to "see" the old gang again ... (2-23,Meretzky) The dem percentages look more like who did how much of Bureaucracy. (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Night, brian! LOOM! LOOM! (2-22,Flying Gerbil) Marc, that's about as good as my IIcx. :) (2-41,John/Eleanor Kenned) --->Dave, wait until this time next year. Seriously (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) G'nite Brian (2-7,Dave Lebling) With Paul Tsongas as Tim? (2-23,Meretzky) Ciao, Bri! (2-1,Crusader) Night Brain! (2-27,Brian Moriarty) Ciao? Ick! You sound like you live ... Oh, never mind. (2-22,Flying Gerbil) (2-23,Meretzky) No, Tim doesn't have enough charisma to be Paul Tsongas. (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) Boy, have't seen people bail out this fast since that bar the shore patrol came into (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) Paul Tsongas doesn't have enough charisma to be Paul Tsongas. (2-23,Meretzky) Last I heard was 36% of the vote in... (2-20,Wizzy/Host) (Dave, grin!!!) (2-7,Dave Lebling) If the SP's coming into this bar, I better run, too! Bye all! (2-26,ToH/Marc Sira) Bye, Dave. (2-15,Dave Timoney/ADV SL) Bye Dave (2-20,Wizzy/Host) Glad you made it, Dave! Don't be a stranger! [At this point most of the Infocom Authors had departed, and the historic conference drew to a close.]